Infinite tokens resulting in a forced draw
Infinite token generating loop forced a draw.
This wasn't intentional, as I do not own a copy of Polyraptor at this time. However, Etali, Primal Storm snagged a copy from the top of my opponent's library and chaos ensued. Both of us were forced to watch this continuous loop until a draw was declared as there was no way for me to choose a different action when this occurred.
There should really be a hard limit to how many times two unique cards (I'm assuming each card in a deck has an object id associated with it) can trigger an ability in the same turn. Otherwise, players could just build a "draw" deck and ruin the experience for everyone.
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Keith#09046 commented
-Iceboundjester8#76693
"Right now will be tough getting into the arena with its current meta but i hope you find your play style. I have a few but its hard coming up with new crazy fun ideas right now."
I'll admit there's a large learning curve for me at the moment. I stopped playing with physical cards around the time Kamigawa was in circulation for various reasons. I had tried Arena a couple years ago when it was still new, so I'm somewhat familiar with Planeswalkers and how Arena played back then. A lot has changed since then it seems, but I'm having fun nonetheless.
"I will add that if i seemed unclear, i do think the actual issue is that the game ended in a draw because of the way the game is coded and not that issue with infinite loops correct?"
Correct. Token generation loops aren't a new concept for me, and I doubt they're leaving the game anytime soon as many play-styles rely on this methodology. My concern in this instance is the built-in logic to forcefully end a game in a draw after an ability is triggered a certain amount of times despite the fact my opponent would've won this match.
As you've detailed in your second response, I have learned this is an intentional mechanic to lessen the impact of the servers during playtime as more people are playing MTGA than ever now. I imagine after the recently announced mobile version of MTGA is officially released, this function of the game may be tweaked to supplement the growing player-base and up-scaled environment the game servers are hosted on. Whether it becomes enforced and/or removed remains to be seen, but I do hope an alternative method will be implemented to avoid this kind of forced conclusion to a match in the future.
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Iceboundjester8#76693 commented
I will add that if i seemed unclear, i do think the actual issue is that the game ended in a draw because of the way the game is coded and not that issue with infinite loops correct?
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Iceboundjester8#76693 commented
@Keith#09046
"Thank you for your explanation. I've just returned to Magic a few weeks ago after several years and am trying to get caught up on everything. If this is just how the new format is played, then I'll have to change my approach."Right now will be tough getting into the arena with its current meta but i hope you find your play style. I have a few but its hard coming up with new crazy fun ideas right now.
"Thank you for taking the time to provide a detailed explanation. I realize what occurred isn't a "bug" in and of itself as all three cards are functioning as intended, and it was just the perfect storm of events to occur to cause this to happen. However, I was directed here to provide feedback regarding what was experienced when I brought this up with support to provide recorded feedback of what occurred during our match. I doubt any real "fix" will be implemented anytime soon due to how the format has changed, but I digress." and the rest.
I myself have had an issue like this with my mutate deck. I have one card that draws when i mutate and sometime i forget. Whenever i go to play my starix to gt all of my library out for free im forced to draw. I've taken an L to this many times but yea it just takes some getting used to towards you own deck and the current meta. The only thing id have to comment about changing a rule in arena is that if that happens it would also be changed for all formats among all platforms since mtga is based on the rule set of MTG:TCG.I agree also with the fact that arena has it that a player can not spam the same action multiple times. That should be taken out but it is there for now as a system backup. In Order to not have the system crash for people who use mas token dupe decks. Once they can solve the lag and server issue with that i think that the limit issue will be uncapped and the game will work correctly.
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Keith#09046 commented
- Iceboundjester8#76693
Thank you for your explanation. I've just returned to Magic a few weeks ago after several years and am trying to get caught up on everything. If this is just how the new format is played, then I'll have to change my approach.
-Iceboundjester8#76693
Thank you for taking the time to provide a detailed explanation. I realize what occurred isn't a "bug" in and of itself as all three cards are functioning as intended, and it was just the perfect storm of events to occur to cause this to happen. However, I was directed here to provide feedback regarding what was experienced when I brought this up with support to provide recorded feedback of what occurred during our match. I doubt any real "fix" will be implemented anytime soon due to how the format has changed, but I digress.
This Kiroa card isn't the issue. If the game was allowed to continue, my opponent would've won the match due to an infinite self-mill loop, so in my mind, they rightfully won this match. However, this match has taught me that due to how the programmers' attempted to force resolve a match when a loop is achieved, I could theoretically throw a Polyraptor into my deck and replicate this exact loop anytime I wanted via the "Commune With Dinosaurs", "Etali, Primal Storm", or any other card with a similar effect to force a draw instead of taking a loss.
Meaning, I've been handed a method to only punish the player currently winning by cheating them out of a well-earned win. Nothing is currently stopping me from doing this once I've acquired a copy of Polyraptor, which is a problem. As not only does it waste my opponent's time, but would potentially allow me to rank up a fair degree without any repercussions.
This particular function of Arena should be revisited when they have some time to at least implement a system to discourage such gameplay. If I had played the exact same match with physical cards, my opponent would've won the match. Instead, it was declared a draw due to back-end programming logic, making both players leave the match feeling like it was a big waste of time.
Either change how many times an ability can be triggered between two unique cards on one turn (10-20 times, for example), or allow the game to reach it's inevitable conclusion so a winner is declared.
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Iceboundjester8#76693 commented
Also, to respond to this comment, "Otherwise, players could just build a "draw" deck and ruin the experience for everyone." This is kinda how the format Modern is played so i don't think that adding in a feature like this will likely make the players happy.
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Iceboundjester8#76693 commented
That's not a bug, you just happened to play a card that you probably should not have with that loop.
Kiora's description is as followed:
Whenever a creature with power 4 or greater enters the battlefield under your control, draw a card.
[−1]: Untap target permanent.Now let me explain why this is not good for the loop. You get the loop going by having the Marauding Raptor in play following by a Polyraptor. With just that it s infinite. The Polyraptor enters get 2 damage done makes a copy does 2 damage to that one ...ect. With Kiora in play you draw a card for each Polyraptor so in theory yes the loop work but you are self milling due to the set card active you your play field. So nothing is incorrect.