Limiting Immerstrum Predator
Immersturm Predator: This card is able to activate abilities in the middle of combat. This seems to defy the following rules:
601.2f The player determines the total cost of the spell. Usually this is just the mana cost. Some spells have additional or alternative costs. Some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay, or may provide other alternative costs. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. The total cost is the mana cost or alternative cost (as determined in rule 601.2b), plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost reductions. If multiple cost reductions apply, the player may apply them in any order. If the mana component of the total cost is reduced to nothing by cost reduction effects, it is considered to be {0}. It can’t be reduced to less than {0}. Once the total cost is determined, any effects that directly affect the total cost are applied. Then the resulting total cost becomes “locked in.” If effects would change the total cost after this time, they have no effect.
801.6. A player can’t activate the activated abilities of an object outside of their range of influence.
However, the rule stated in 601.2f are contrary to the end of each of the following rules:
508.1h If any of the chosen creatures require paying costs to attack, or if any optional costs to attack were chosen, the active player determines the total cost to attack. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. Once the total cost is determined, it becomes “locked in.” If effects would change the total cost after this time, ignore this change.
509.1d If any of the chosen creatures require paying costs to block, the defending player determines the total cost to block. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. Once the total cost is determined, it becomes “locked in.” If effects would change the total cost after this time, ignore this change.
The ability of Immersturm Predator to activate the ability, “Sacrifice another creature: Immerstrum Predator gains indestructible until end of turn. Tap it.” in the middle of combat should not be allowed. Observing 601.2f shows us that the total cost is already determined by the player before the attack or block occurs. The player’s decision becomes “locked in” by the cost and any additional effect has no effect. Likewise, “lock(ing) in” a play removes control from the player to make additional changes to the stack.
If I am misreading 601.2f, it is worth stating that the rules 508.1h and 509.1d give the player the choice to ignore the rules, allowing them to make midplay decisions. Changing the course of play in the middle of an attack or block seems fundamentally wrong and unfair. Ignoring the change to the state of attack of defense makes Immersturm Predator unduly powerful.
This should be updated in Arena during the next Alchemy update and within the Live TCG with explicit instruction to the players that
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[Deleted User] commented
No, just someone who mostly understands the rules of the game
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Grigam#92702 commented
Oh, are you a representative of Wizards of the Coast?
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[Deleted User] commented
I’m not sure where to begin here. You have quoted several irrelevant rules and I’m not completely sure what you are actually saying is illegal.
Immersturm Predator has an activated ability. Activated abilities can be activated when the creatures controller has priority, and can pay the cost (in this case, sacrificing another creature).
Sacrificing another creature is the only cost required for the Predator. This can be activated at instant speed.
601.2f is irrelevant as a spell is not being cast.
801.6 is irrelevant as it relates to game modes not on Arena
508.1d and h are irrelevant as Predator does not have a cost to attack
Locking in refers to a situation where something like Archon of Absolution comes in after attackers are declared. It doesn’t retroactively make the player pay the Archon’s cost for attacking