Soulflayer delve problem with commander
I cast Soulflayer by exiling Ketramose, the New Dawn(my commander) in the graveyard
I choose to return Ketramose to command zone after it's exiled
Soulflayer did not gain lifelink and indestructible
Soulflayer should gain lifelink and indestructible because it only checks the cards that were exiled by delve while you were casting it. It doesn't matter what happens to those cards after they've been exiled, so removing cards that were exiled via delve will not affect what abilities Soulflayer has. It also means that if you delve away your commander (and put your commander into the command zone instead of exile), it will still be able to gain the abilities that it has.
yuseimax#72933
shared this idea
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yuseimax#72933
commented
This rule should clear up all the confusion.
400.7. An object that moves from one zone to another becomes a new object with no memory of, or
relation to, its previous existence. This rule has the following exceptions.
400.7d An ability of a permanent can reference information about the spell that became that
permanent as it resolved, including what costs were paid to cast that spell or what mana was
spent to pay those costs.This perfectly explains why Soulflayer can retain the information of any card that left the exile zone, including commander returning to command zone.
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yuseimax#72933
commented
It is NOT a linked ability according to 607.2b. If you read Soulflayer’s text, it says,
“exiled with Soulflayer's delve ability”. “Delve ability” is the key here. 607.2b “exiled with [this object]” does not apply to Soulflayer as delve ability is not an object(109.1).
Since it’s not a linked ability, last known information is not relevant in this case, making 604.7 inapplicable.
Soulflayer’s ability does not reference what the cards in exile currently look like, so it doesn't need to look at the information as it currently exists; it just remembers. -
Rezzahan#77802
commented
It's a static ability, and thus falls under 604.7. It cannot reference any cards that leave exile. Last known information is NOT consulted.
Furthermore, it IS a linked ability:
607.2q If a permanent spell has an ability printed on it that allows one or more cards to be exiled
while paying a cost to cast it and the permanent that spell becomes has an ability that refers to
cards “exiled with [this object],” those abilities are linked. The second ability refers only to
cards exiled to pay the cost of the spell that became that permanent. -
yuseimax#72933
commented
More support:
The ability of Soulflayer is not a “linked ability.” So instead of referring to the exiled card, it checks the history information of what was exiled with delve when the ability was used when you cast it, and it works regardless of what happened to the exiled card afterwards. -
Rezzahan#77802
commented
It DOES matter what happen to the cards in exile, because Soulflayer's ability is a static ability, and thus cannot use last known information. So if a card leaves exile, like putting the commander back into the comand zone, that information can no longer be referenced.
604.7. Unlike spells and other kinds of abilities, static abilities can’t use an object’s last known
information for purposes of determining how their effects are applied.