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NODUGONOKO#49719

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  1. Algorithm Improvement

    313 votes

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    NODUGONOKO#49719 commented  · 

    THIS IS A POST! NOT A COMMENT!

    I would like to point out that my "comment" WAS an actual post. I guess Wizards decided that putting my entire post attached to this other one was a solution to shutting me up and sweeping me under the carpet. My post has nothing to do with "Algorithm Improvement" AT ALL! I firmly submit the idea that Wizards do the HONORABLE thing FOR THEIR FANS and GET RID OF THE ALGORITHM! WE JUST WANT TO PLAY ACTUAL MAGIC!

    By the way, as a LONG TIME (16 years) mtg player, I am extremely angry that this is how my legitimate post was treated. I hoped that, at the very least, the company that created such a glorious and wonderful game would make their player base their priority. This is not what that feels like at all.

    This is exactly why your player retention rate is continuously dropping. I doubt my post was even completely read as soon as the reader realized I am complaining. Do you want to make more money Wizards?! READ THIS POST AND TAKE SOME ADVICE FROM YOUR FANS!

    Here is my issue. I have been playing arena practically since it's drop. It is obvious, probably even to someone who just occasionally plays, that things have changed. For example, as most of us have one, you can use a deck tracker to watch your win/lose ratio for every deck you use. If you were able to compare the overall player data, I guarantee, that you would certainly see that overall player win-loss ratios across the board have reached ever-closer to a flat 50% ratio. For all decks.

    Like I said, as a player, you can see this trend on your own decks if you have been playing long enough. Which has led many of us to explore whatever possible causes brought arena to such a forced win and forced loss saturated play experience. Which brings me to the issue all of this stretches from. THE ALGORITHM.

    Not just the "hand smoothing". Not just the opponent match-ups. Or just the way in which cards are given to you vs how they are given to your opponent. It's all of those aspects of the game mixed into one. If you are an individual who legitimately believes what I'm saying is false, I urge you to do your own research, listen to what the rest of the mtga community has to say, and come back later with a more educated, leveled head.

    So obviously you've gathered I am talking about how the victor of any arena game is almost entirely dependent on this algorithm. Many of us even get the feeling that a game is rigged towards ourselves or our opponents based upon just our first hand. Which seems bonkers right? But think about your own experience playing.

    In ANY match of arena, no matter how many or how few lands you add to your deck, Arena does not give lands to your hand based on the land based on a random order, mixed with the possibility of chance, and the number of lands in your deck. The way it works in real life. The goal of shuffling is to RANDOMIZE YOUR DECK!

    After playing a few games, a fool could tell you, the way Arena gives your lands is based on if the algorithm decides you're supposed to win that game. Making your lands, essential to playing, a tool to keep everyone's decks as close to a 50% win-loss ratio. Which leads me to the next tool arena uses to force you to win or lose.

    Who are you getting matched against? Is it some Joe-Shmoe from a random place with the best internet connection? Nope. Look closely and Arena undeniably TRIES to put you against your opponent based on the very cards in your deck. Which you can experiment with and see for yourself.

    All avid Arena players tweak and fine tune our decks. Most of us are just trying to beat the algorithm itself. (But let's not get into that at the moment.) And you will notice pretty quickly that this is true by changing the amount of removal you have in a deck. Or most commonly, if your deck has the ability to create creatures or not. Which upsets the balance of playing against a healthy variety of opponents.

    This leads to mirror matches happening frequently. If not literally an exact mirror match, you will be likely playing at least the same style. So control vs control or aggro vs aggro. If you aren't experiencing that, which is most of the time, what you're experiencing is way worse. A deck that is always a perfect counter to your own.

    When I drift below the 50% win-loss ratio border, the algorithm will put me against total puffs. Noobs. People who clearly don't know how to build a deck yet. And they will give me a perfect hand. This happens for a while in little spurts between an occasional loss.

    When you drift above 50% the algorithm starts to hand you more opponents with decks like I mentioned earlier. Literally your same style deck, but your opponent gets a waaaay better hand. On top of that, you are also being land flooded or handed cards that can literally get nothing accomplished at the moments arena puts them in your hand.

    This brings me to my last big point on the topic. How the algorithm decides what card to give you off the top whenever you get one.

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    NODUGONOKO#49719 commented  · 

    I would like to point out that my "comment" WAS an actual post. I guess Wizards decided that putting my entire post attached to this other one was a solution to shutting me up and sweeping me under the carpet. My post has nothing to do with "Algorithm Improvement" AT ALL! I firmly submit the idea that Wizards do the HONORABLE thing FOR THEIR FANS and GET RID OF THE ALGORITHM! WE JUST WANT TO PLAY ACTUAL MAGIC!

    By the way, as a LONG TIME (16 years) mtg player, I am extremely angry that this is how my legitimate post was treated. I hoped that, at the very least, the company that created such a glorious and wonderful game would make their player base their priority. This is not what that feels like at all.

    NODUGONOKO#49719 supported this idea  · 
    An error occurred while saving the comment
    NODUGONOKO#49719 commented  · 

    Here is my issue. I have been playing arena practically since it's drop. It is obvious, probably even to someone who just occasionally plays, that things have changed. For example, as most of us have one, you can use a deck tracker to watch your win/lose ratio for every deck you use. If you were able to compare the overall player data, I guarantee, that you would certainly see that overall player win-loss ratios across the board have reached ever-closer to a flat 50% ratio. For all decks.

    Like I said, as a player, you can see this trend on your own decks if you have been playing long enough. Which has led many of us to explore whatever possible causes brought arena to such a forced win and forced loss saturated play experience. Which brings me to the issue all of this stretches from. THE ALGORITHM.

    Not just the "hand smoothing". Not just the opponent match-ups. Or just the way in which cards are given to you vs how they are given to your opponent. It's all of those aspects of the game mixed into one. If you are an individual who legitimately believes what I'm saying is false, I urge you to do your own research, listen to what the rest of the mtga community has to say, and come back later with a more educated, leveled head.

    So obviously you've gathered I am talking about how the victor of any arena game is almost entirely dependent on this algorithm. Many of us even get the feeling that a game is rigged towards ourselves or our opponents based upon just our first hand. Which seems bonkers right? But think about your own experience playing.

    In ANY match of arena, no matter how many or how few lands you add to your deck, Arena does not give lands to your hand based on the land based on a random order, mixed with the possibility of chance, and the number of lands in your deck. The way it works in real life. The goal of shuffling is to RANDOMIZE YOUR DECK!

    After playing a few games, a fool could tell you, the way Arena gives your lands is based on if the algorithm decides you're supposed to win that game. Making your lands, essential to playing, a tool to keep everyone's decks as close to a 50% win-loss ratio. Which leads me to the next tool arena uses to force you to win or lose.

    Who are you getting matched against? Is it some Joe-Shmoe from a random place with the best internet connection? Nope. Look closely and Arena undeniably TRIES to put you against your opponent based on the very cards in your deck. Which you can experiment with and see for yourself.

    All avid Arena players tweak and fine tune our decks. Most of us are just trying to beat the algorithm itself. (But let's not get into that at the moment.) And you will notice pretty quickly that this is true by changing the amount of removal you have in a deck. Or most commonly, if your deck has the ability to create creatures or not. Which upsets the balance of playing against a healthy variety of opponents.

    This leads to mirror matches happening frequently. If not literally an exact mirror match, you will be likely playing at least the same style. So control vs control or aggro vs aggro. If you aren't experiencing that, which is most of the time, what you're experiencing is way worse. A deck that is always a perfect counter to your own.

    When I drift below the 50% win-loss ratio border, the algorithm will put me against total puffs. Noobs. People who clearly don't know how to build a deck yet. And they will give me a perfect hand. This happens for a while in little spurts between an occasional loss.

    When you drift above 50% the algorithm starts to hand you more opponents with decks like I mentioned earlier. Literally your same style deck, but your opponent gets a waaaay better hand. On top of that, you are also being land flooded or handed cards that can literally get nothing accomplished at the moments arena puts them in your hand.

    This brings me to my last big point on the topic. How the algorithm decides what card to give you off the top whenever you get one. It is undeniably rigged. Through and through.

    If the algorithm decides you are supposed to lose and you survive the two prior factors, this is the ultimate fail-safe nobody expected. THE CARDS OFF THE TOP OF YOUR LIBRARY ARE NOT EVER ACTUALLY RANDOM! Which ruins the whole game of magic. Absolutely ruins the perfect balance any perfect game has between chance and skill. This is an indisputable fact that I believe only an extreme fan-boy of Wizards or Wizards employee would attempt to deny.

    Here's my Bug/Product suggestion. DITCH THE ALGORITHM! FOR REAL! HAVE EVERY SINGLE CARD WE SEE ENTER OUR HANDS FROM OUR DECKS BE ENTIRELY RANDOM! Magic the Gathering is not the same game without it's quality of chance. In other words, Magic sucks if you can't actually play Magic.

    *Mic drop*

  2. 65 votes

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    NODUGONOKO#49719 commented  · 

    I'm having this Issue right now. It's literally the next year. It's February. Why is this happening?

    NODUGONOKO#49719 supported this idea  · 
  3. 20 votes

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    NODUGONOKO#49719 supported this idea  · 
  4. 81 votes

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  5. 97 votes

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  6. 107 votes

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  7. 106 votes

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  8. 123 votes

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  9. 174 votes

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  10. 196 votes

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  11. 2,210 votes

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