Algorithm Improvement
I'm sure you're getting a lot of complaints about how one-sided your algorithm is not being impartial and often times screwing over players with land draws that should not be happening in a purely random sample - so my complaint can be added to that pile.
But, an idea for changing the algorithm to improve randomization would be having the program assign a number to each card remaining in a deck and pile shuffling the cards into X amount of piles (let's say 6). It can repeat this process Y amount of times then take the middle of the pile and put those cards on top. A better template would be from the card shuffler for poker sets from stores.
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MysticSquid#48745 commented
quick Question . how is it possible to properly tune a deck when your shuffler keeps either massive amounts of mana or almost none every game. Like seriously how can you tune a deck without being able to figure out if you have too much land or not enough. last 10 games have been either 12+ land runs or by turn 10 struggling with only 3 or 4 lands. I really dont know how it is possible. Are you guys suggesting we abandon trying to build our own decks and just use net decks, or only ply mono aggro decks? Or are you just trying to alienate the crafting part of the community?
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player2aj#16271 commented
As the title says.
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quentin#51669 commented
aunque tengo un mazo de 60 cartas siempre juego con 4 o 5 cartas que tocan tras barajar, en otros combates decaparecen las tierras, y en otro combates solo me salen encantamientos, buen algoritmo, entiendo que se premie de alguna manera al que compra asiduamente pero es vergonzoso
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MysticSquid#48745 commented
just wanted to point out the algorithm used by your shuffler is showing patterns that could be exploited. I have been playing and recording my game data for long enough that I can see the patterns used by your shuffler. Such as I know when I'm going to get mana flooded because this specific card appears in my opening hand, or when I'm going to get a god draw because this other card is in my opening hand . It is also possible to predict the next card draw I'm going to get. And this is all just playing the game without any programs running other then your game. You really should go back to the old shuffler for ranked games and events as the hand smoothing thing is a huge failure .
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itsmycj8#29398 commented
The shuffling algorithm is garbage. I have a deck the sat has 84 lands and in the last 10 games, 7 of them had me receive less than 2 lands in the first 5 turns that's bullsh*t!!!
That's no way whatever algorithm you use wouldn't give the player a card that is literally 1 out of every 4 cards in the deck.
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WisemanYata#71806 commented
This deck only has twenty lands in an even split.
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Shadow-Banned91#26944 commented
Just remember they deleted the old shuffler algo posting the current pic is about a year old..the most recent shuffler topic had over 3k hits with 10k plus comments..trust me wizards does not care what we think..its all about cranking out half *** product and shoving alchemy down our throats..and if they happen to go out of their way to ban your account or comments or threads chances are you hit the nail on the head..wizards knows exactly what they are doing..remember "IT'S WORKING AS INTENDED "
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Vulrynn#43233 commented
I hope you look all day, because frankly its unplayable. I watch guys with 4 or 5 color decks draw or have every land when they need it. Do I need to pay an insider to rig the algo for me?
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Vulrynn#43233 commented
There is no way, I have played all night. There has been 40 percent chance to draw lands all day no lands lose lose lose lose, do I need to go fifty percent 90 percent, its a draft and how the **** do these people have all the good cards, I mean every single one, there is just no way unless the game is rigged or they are cheating.
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klIIerKing#94798 commented
The game is absolutely horrible. And I hope anyone who has the brains to read these comments before downloading doesn’t spend a dime, or better yet, just downloads a better game. It’s unplayable period. The algorithm is completely messed up. It forces you to spend money to be able to make better decks. But it still doesn’t help because the shuffler is also rigged so that you still lose due to mana swamp or mana poor scenarios. DONT PLAY THIS GAME. ITS TRASH.
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Dannywiz#08434 commented
You should public declare how the shuffler works because lot of players complain about it.
Read the comments left to the app… -
NODUGONOKO#49719 commented
THIS IS A POST! NOT A COMMENT!
I would like to point out that my "comment" WAS an actual post. I guess Wizards decided that putting my entire post attached to this other one was a solution to shutting me up and sweeping me under the carpet. My post has nothing to do with "Algorithm Improvement" AT ALL! I firmly submit the idea that Wizards do the HONORABLE thing FOR THEIR FANS and GET RID OF THE ALGORITHM! WE JUST WANT TO PLAY ACTUAL MAGIC!
By the way, as a LONG TIME (16 years) mtg player, I am extremely angry that this is how my legitimate post was treated. I hoped that, at the very least, the company that created such a glorious and wonderful game would make their player base their priority. This is not what that feels like at all.
This is exactly why your player retention rate is continuously dropping. I doubt my post was even completely read as soon as the reader realized I am complaining. Do you want to make more money Wizards?! READ THIS POST AND TAKE SOME ADVICE FROM YOUR FANS!
Here is my issue. I have been playing arena practically since it's drop. It is obvious, probably even to someone who just occasionally plays, that things have changed. For example, as most of us have one, you can use a deck tracker to watch your win/lose ratio for every deck you use. If you were able to compare the overall player data, I guarantee, that you would certainly see that overall player win-loss ratios across the board have reached ever-closer to a flat 50% ratio. For all decks.
Like I said, as a player, you can see this trend on your own decks if you have been playing long enough. Which has led many of us to explore whatever possible causes brought arena to such a forced win and forced loss saturated play experience. Which brings me to the issue all of this stretches from. THE ALGORITHM.
Not just the "hand smoothing". Not just the opponent match-ups. Or just the way in which cards are given to you vs how they are given to your opponent. It's all of those aspects of the game mixed into one. If you are an individual who legitimately believes what I'm saying is false, I urge you to do your own research, listen to what the rest of the mtga community has to say, and come back later with a more educated, leveled head.
So obviously you've gathered I am talking about how the victor of any arena game is almost entirely dependent on this algorithm. Many of us even get the feeling that a game is rigged towards ourselves or our opponents based upon just our first hand. Which seems bonkers right? But think about your own experience playing.
In ANY match of arena, no matter how many or how few lands you add to your deck, Arena does not give lands to your hand based on the land based on a random order, mixed with the possibility of chance, and the number of lands in your deck. The way it works in real life. The goal of shuffling is to RANDOMIZE YOUR DECK!
After playing a few games, a fool could tell you, the way Arena gives your lands is based on if the algorithm decides you're supposed to win that game. Making your lands, essential to playing, a tool to keep everyone's decks as close to a 50% win-loss ratio. Which leads me to the next tool arena uses to force you to win or lose.
Who are you getting matched against? Is it some Joe-Shmoe from a random place with the best internet connection? Nope. Look closely and Arena undeniably TRIES to put you against your opponent based on the very cards in your deck. Which you can experiment with and see for yourself.
All avid Arena players tweak and fine tune our decks. Most of us are just trying to beat the algorithm itself. (But let's not get into that at the moment.) And you will notice pretty quickly that this is true by changing the amount of removal you have in a deck. Or most commonly, if your deck has the ability to create creatures or not. Which upsets the balance of playing against a healthy variety of opponents.
This leads to mirror matches happening frequently. If not literally an exact mirror match, you will be likely playing at least the same style. So control vs control or aggro vs aggro. If you aren't experiencing that, which is most of the time, what you're experiencing is way worse. A deck that is always a perfect counter to your own.
When I drift below the 50% win-loss ratio border, the algorithm will put me against total puffs. Noobs. People who clearly don't know how to build a deck yet. And they will give me a perfect hand. This happens for a while in little spurts between an occasional loss.
When you drift above 50% the algorithm starts to hand you more opponents with decks like I mentioned earlier. Literally your same style deck, but your opponent gets a waaaay better hand. On top of that, you are also being land flooded or handed cards that can literally get nothing accomplished at the moments arena puts them in your hand.
This brings me to my last big point on the topic. How the algorithm decides what card to give you off the top whenever you get one.
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NODUGONOKO#49719 commented
I would like to point out that my "comment" WAS an actual post. I guess Wizards decided that putting my entire post attached to this other one was a solution to shutting me up and sweeping me under the carpet. My post has nothing to do with "Algorithm Improvement" AT ALL! I firmly submit the idea that Wizards do the HONORABLE thing FOR THEIR FANS and GET RID OF THE ALGORITHM! WE JUST WANT TO PLAY ACTUAL MAGIC!
By the way, as a LONG TIME (16 years) mtg player, I am extremely angry that this is how my legitimate post was treated. I hoped that, at the very least, the company that created such a glorious and wonderful game would make their player base their priority. This is not what that feels like at all.
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NODUGONOKO#49719 commented
Here is my issue. I have been playing arena practically since it's drop. It is obvious, probably even to someone who just occasionally plays, that things have changed. For example, as most of us have one, you can use a deck tracker to watch your win/lose ratio for every deck you use. If you were able to compare the overall player data, I guarantee, that you would certainly see that overall player win-loss ratios across the board have reached ever-closer to a flat 50% ratio. For all decks.
Like I said, as a player, you can see this trend on your own decks if you have been playing long enough. Which has led many of us to explore whatever possible causes brought arena to such a forced win and forced loss saturated play experience. Which brings me to the issue all of this stretches from. THE ALGORITHM.
Not just the "hand smoothing". Not just the opponent match-ups. Or just the way in which cards are given to you vs how they are given to your opponent. It's all of those aspects of the game mixed into one. If you are an individual who legitimately believes what I'm saying is false, I urge you to do your own research, listen to what the rest of the mtga community has to say, and come back later with a more educated, leveled head.
So obviously you've gathered I am talking about how the victor of any arena game is almost entirely dependent on this algorithm. Many of us even get the feeling that a game is rigged towards ourselves or our opponents based upon just our first hand. Which seems bonkers right? But think about your own experience playing.
In ANY match of arena, no matter how many or how few lands you add to your deck, Arena does not give lands to your hand based on the land based on a random order, mixed with the possibility of chance, and the number of lands in your deck. The way it works in real life. The goal of shuffling is to RANDOMIZE YOUR DECK!
After playing a few games, a fool could tell you, the way Arena gives your lands is based on if the algorithm decides you're supposed to win that game. Making your lands, essential to playing, a tool to keep everyone's decks as close to a 50% win-loss ratio. Which leads me to the next tool arena uses to force you to win or lose.
Who are you getting matched against? Is it some Joe-Shmoe from a random place with the best internet connection? Nope. Look closely and Arena undeniably TRIES to put you against your opponent based on the very cards in your deck. Which you can experiment with and see for yourself.
All avid Arena players tweak and fine tune our decks. Most of us are just trying to beat the algorithm itself. (But let's not get into that at the moment.) And you will notice pretty quickly that this is true by changing the amount of removal you have in a deck. Or most commonly, if your deck has the ability to create creatures or not. Which upsets the balance of playing against a healthy variety of opponents.
This leads to mirror matches happening frequently. If not literally an exact mirror match, you will be likely playing at least the same style. So control vs control or aggro vs aggro. If you aren't experiencing that, which is most of the time, what you're experiencing is way worse. A deck that is always a perfect counter to your own.
When I drift below the 50% win-loss ratio border, the algorithm will put me against total puffs. Noobs. People who clearly don't know how to build a deck yet. And they will give me a perfect hand. This happens for a while in little spurts between an occasional loss.
When you drift above 50% the algorithm starts to hand you more opponents with decks like I mentioned earlier. Literally your same style deck, but your opponent gets a waaaay better hand. On top of that, you are also being land flooded or handed cards that can literally get nothing accomplished at the moments arena puts them in your hand.
This brings me to my last big point on the topic. How the algorithm decides what card to give you off the top whenever you get one. It is undeniably rigged. Through and through.
If the algorithm decides you are supposed to lose and you survive the two prior factors, this is the ultimate fail-safe nobody expected. THE CARDS OFF THE TOP OF YOUR LIBRARY ARE NOT EVER ACTUALLY RANDOM! Which ruins the whole game of magic. Absolutely ruins the perfect balance any perfect game has between chance and skill. This is an indisputable fact that I believe only an extreme fan-boy of Wizards or Wizards employee would attempt to deny.
Here's my Bug/Product suggestion. DITCH THE ALGORITHM! FOR REAL! HAVE EVERY SINGLE CARD WE SEE ENTER OUR HANDS FROM OUR DECKS BE ENTIRELY RANDOM! Magic the Gathering is not the same game without it's quality of chance. In other words, Magic sucks if you can't actually play Magic.
*Mic drop*
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ExodusTheBard#99252 commented
I run go-shintai shrine tribal in historic brawl. The deck runs 36 lands. The algorithm that "randomizes" my hand has been giving me two lands in my starting hand with annoying regularity, several times I've had to mull down to 0 and it still won't give me more than two.
Make your algorithm truly random. Don't force a balance in my hand I don't want, this has never happened with the paper copy of it I have.
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DarkNoble#00880 commented
Here are a couple of times I remembered to screenshot the hijinks.
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DarkNoble#00880 commented
Please, please, implement a way to opt out of the hand-smoothing and matchmaking algorithms. I've been tracking my games and I lose way more to the shuffler than to my own mistakes/opponents. I get hands that start with two mana and then no mana til turn six while you are drawing all the most expensive cards in your deck, or hands that start with 3 and boy those other 4 better be good because you have 5-6 lands on the top of your deck to fight whatever your opponent gets. It's like you want to remove needing to understand math and probability out of the game and make sure it's dumbed down enough for everyone. Problem is, that fundamentally changes the game for the worse (doesn't even feel like real Magic, more like a competitor knock-off) and makes veteran players who in some cases (like myself) have almost 30 years of experience building decks, supporting YOUR game and money-maker want to walk away from this platform. I'd rather go back to playing on busted third party unofficial platforms that at least offer random matches and random shuffling as opposed to your "curated to remove the need for intelligence" style of matchmaking and shuffling. At this point, it is OBVIOUS to everyone that this is a terrible system. Please, if you're so fond of the algorithm, at least allow players to opt out of it so you guys can still milk the people who can't add or cipher probabilities for themselves while still letting those of us who can do math to enjoy the game as we do in paper. You don't get to hand select or get paired with people based on what you and they are playing, again this is not native to Magic the Gathering and fundamentally changes the game for the worse. Please, don't kill this game to make a buck. They've already done that with the environment and people's minds, not Magic too, please!!
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DarkNoble#00880 commented
I can't agree more with Mystic Squid (previous comment), I've been tracking my games and I lose way more to the shuffler than to my own mistakes/opponent. I get hands that start with two mana and then no mana til turn six while you are drawing all the most expensive cards in your deck, or hands that start with 3 and boy those other 4 better be good because you have 5-6 lands on the top of your deck to fight whatever your opponent gets. It's like you want to remove needing to understand math and probability out of the game and make sure it's dumbed down enough for everyone. Problem is, that fundamentally changes the game for the worse and makes veteran players who in some cases (like myself) have almost 30 years of experience building decks, supporting YOUR game and money-maker want to walk away from this platform. I'd rather go back to playing on busted third party unofficial platforms that at least offer random matches and random shuffling as opposed to your "curated to remove the need for intelligence" style of matchmaking and shuffling. At this point, it is OBVIOUS to everyone that this is a terrible system. Please, if you're so fond of the algorithm, at least allow players to opt out of it so you guys can still milk the people who can't add or cipher probabilities for themselves while still letting those of us who can do math to enjoy the game as we do in paper. Please, don't kill this game to make a buck. They've already done that with the environment and people's minds, not Magic too, please!!
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TunaHotPockets#80631 commented
There is no hand-smoothing in Best-of-3. Perhaps its time to play the real version of MTG and ditch BO1?
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non-inflammable#06016 commented
I too tracked my games. THIS IS NOT BIAS. in my very first day of tracking games, i went first 22 times and second 41 times. i have played every day for a month and tracked all of my games. so far, i went first 522 times and second 622 times. there was a streak where i went second 13 straight times. on the other side of that, the most i went first was 6 times straight and i was absolutely stunned to go first that many times in a row...